Friday, 13 January 2012

Anglesey Plaid: "surprised and disappointed" with Ieuan Wyn Jones

The Daily Post headline
The Leader of the Plaid Cymru group within Anglesey County Council, Cllr Bob Parry, has slammed Ieuan Wyn Jones's decision to support postponing elections on Ynys Môn.

In the Daily Post he says, "It is very disappointing and surprising that the party have gone against the views of its local members who have opposed the delay". As Cllr Parry apparently didn't know about the decision until afterwards, one has to wonder who Ieuan Wyn Jones consulted prior to making his decision. The Daily Post reports that he wrote to the Minister supporting the postponement "on behalf of the party's constituency committee". Judging by Cllr Parry's surprise, we can only conclude that this committee is too august a body to include Cllr Parry, who is after all only Deputy Leader of the council and Leader of the Plaid Cymru group.

Ieuan Wyn Jones's letter to Carl Sargeant apparently says that the delay in the presentation of the Boundary Commission's proposals for Ynys Môn meant that there was little option now but to defer the elections for 12 months. A better question surely would be to ask, "why have the boundary commission's proposals been so delayed?" Or "why are these far reaching boundary changes being rushed through on Ynys Môn with only four weeks consultation when the rest of Wales will have four years?"

It is the Welsh Government and Boundary Commission's responsibility to meet the deadlines of local democracy, not vice versa.

36 comments:

kp said...

I cannot agree with your comments. IWJ has, yet again, done the people of Anglesey proud.

It is this council that is so wretched and loathsome. It is the entirety of this toothless, gutless, self serving council that needs disbanding.

How sensible of IWJ not to bother to consult with any single one of them! I hope the commissioners do likewise.

Anonymous said...

I have NEVER seen Bob Parry at a Plaid conference or anything, he is not alone he is Plaid Cymru in name only.

Anonymous said...

i have. he was on telly recently sitting in the audience at some plaid cymru conference debate about nuclear energy.

mairede thomas said...

So, The Party of Wales is going to deprive us of the vote - I don't imagine this is what Nationalists had in mind!

Anonymous said...

What is happening to Ynys Mon ? I was always told "Mon Mam Cymru", so what happening now ? we have become the cesspit of Wales. We are treated with contempt, we are deprived of our lawful democracy. We are governed here by Carl Sargent stooges.
If you ask the question who fault it is ? the fault lies with the people of Anglesey who support nationalis policies that do more harm to us here on Anglesey. Let face it, here on Anglesey we are worse off under the Welsh Assembly government. We are either been made an example of or an experiment of what is to happen else were in Wales. IWJ is the weak link, he should have fighting for us in Cardiff and not the long term interest of his nationalist party
Its time for people of Anglesey to stand up for our rights.

Un o Fon

Anonymous said...

Is KP nuts ?

An Insider said...

IWJ Total waste of time and public money. Party Politics before the people and democracy .

We won't forget when elections come round. I think its called Political Suicide.

228FPA said...

The same old lot will vote this same old politician in again and again until finally the Gwynedd road sweepers come over the bridges and simply sweep up what's left of Anglesey.

Anonymous said...

Surely we have the democratic right to vote for whoever we for who ever we want. What right has the Welsh Assembly to impose on our democracy. The commissioners were not elected, this is a dictatorship!
People of Anglesey have a democratic right to a vote. If we have problem here give us back our voting rights and have an election this May .

Un o Fon

Anonymous said...

Dictatorship Yes ! Democracy is allowing people to vote for whom we want. If the people vote monkeys, monkeys they will get !
Carl Sargent has no right to impose his dictatorship on us !!!!

The Red Flag said...

Many of you are avoiding the problem. Some of those councillors are/were corrupt. Criminally corrupt. With your money to boot. Others behaved like children and couldn't be trusted to actually do their job.

Many more knew what was going on and turned a blind eye making them just as guilty.

It would be massive gross negligence by Sargent and the commissioners to allow the current set-up to continue.

Paul Williams said...

Red Flag - The commissioners were NOT brought in to address "corruption" by councillors in any shape or form. Although there have been proven instances in the past, no current councillors been accused of corruption — a fact underlined by the fact that the two councillors reported to the Ombudsman by David Bowles were reported for matters entirely unconnected with any supposed "corruption".

The Commissioners were sent in by Carl Sargeant because of excessive political machinations which undermined the stability of the executive and which may have caused the council's services to suffer. These machinations involved party affiliated councillors just as much as independent councillors.

The longer this nonsense about supposed 'corruption' by councillors continues, the longer people will mis-diagnose the real problems and the effectiveness of the supposed remedy: in this case the introduction of an electoral system purposefully designed to remove Independent councillors and replace them with party affiliated candidates — despite the fact that some party-affiliated councillors were just as culpable for the actual problems which lead to the introduction of the commissioners.

Furthermore it is entirely wrong under any circumstances to adjust the pre-defined schedules of local democracy because the WG has ballsed up the timing of the boundaries review.

Anonymous said...

Don`t kid yourself Druid, I think Carl Sargeant knows that the problems at the Council goes deeper than just political machinations. I`d have someone delve into the activities of Senior Officers if I were him.

That reminds me, I wonder what`s going on with the suspended two.

The Red Flag said...

Druid, you sure you aren't on this crusade because it's set your aspirations back a year?

And if you don't think that there was corruption going on then God help us.

Paul Williams said...

Red Flag - No. I'm on this crusade because I believe in local democracy. I believe I have shown that adequately over the past couple of years.

The Red Flag said...

You cannot have local democracy until a system is in place that minimises the risk of certain individuals remaining as councillors. That new harsher system has to be priority, not the 2012 election. And the more resistance then the longer it will take and you then run the risk of 2013 becoming 2014.

The day Anglesey thought it could take on Cardiff and win was the day it sealed it's own fate. The deal is cooperate with Cardiff or they will steamroller and there's nothing you can do about it.

Paul Williams said...

Red Flag - I'm sorry, but I disagree. Democracy is the right for people to elect who they wish - however distasteful others may find them. The boundary changes are a short cut which will not solve the actual problems (see my next post for an example).

The Red Flag said...

Doesn't alter the fact that the councillors can either work with Cardiff over this - and may gain a bit of compromise of boundaries in some places), or they can work against and will be ignored and steamrollered over the top of them.

They can always refuse to stand as protest - but not that many people would be bothered if they did.

Paul Williams said...

I see no reason why they should 'work' with Cardiff in this respect. No quarter will be given by the WG in either case.

If we allow the WG to blatantly attempt to effect the outcome of local democracy in this way, what will be next?

The Red Flag said...

The people responsible for this are the councillors themselves. They have set themselves up by their juvenile game-playing and they are now about to be hit with the heavy artillery.

It is they that are the reason there is no election next year. Point the finger of blame where it's deserved.

Paul Williams said...

Red Flag - then there should be an election in May so that the people on Ynys Môn can have heir say on their council at the same time as everyone else in Wales.

The Red Flag said...

That is not going to happen. Forget it. And if the councillors continue to resist or create problems then Cardiff will delay until 2014 etc etc. This is going to happen whether the councillors like it or not. There is no plan B and uunless the councillors think they have enoiugh support to declare UDI then they are slowly going to look more and more isolated and ridiculous. They can be included or excluded - that's up to them, but Cardiff will do what it sees as the solution whether they like it or not.

Other than yourself and a handful of others I don't know of anyone who either isn't in favour of what Cardiff are doing or couldn't care less, they are just sick to death of the councillors.

Their time has come to an end. The sooner they lie down so that we can bury them, the sooner normalisation can commence.

Paul Williams said...

If people are fed up of cllrs then they will vote them out whether the election is this May or next May. There is no valid reason to postpone the elections — the only reason it is happening next year is to ensure that it will be run under new boundaries designed to punish one group of councillors (the Independents) and reward another group (those affiliated to Parties). In my opinion both groups are equally culpable yet in your preferred solution only one group are punished, yet the other's position is strengthened. Thats why this is not a equitable solution the the council's real problems.

Furthermore, as John Dixon wrote:

"There is a dangerous precedent here, under which the Minister has directly interfered in the work of the boundary commission to instruct them to take a particular approach in Ynys Môn, largely because he doesn’t like the result of the elections there. I don’t like them either – but I’m simply not convinced that rigging the electoral system is the right way to deal with that problem. And Ynys Môn isn’t the only place where I don’t like the results of the elections. If the Minister also feels that, what is to stop him interfering further in other areas to obtain a result more to his liking?"

http://borthlas.blogspot.com/2011/11/rigging-system.html

Anonymous said...

Surely Red Flag you are missing the point. If the the electret of Ynys Mon elect monkeys to represent on the council, then monkeys is what we shall have. The people have the right to elect who they want. WAG does not the right to send there unelected dictators to govern Ynys Mon.
I am sure that Ynys Mon is not unique with its councillors, and that all elected councils have similar problems.
We should have full and free democracy return to us with an election this May. Let the people of Ynys Mon decide.

Anonymous said...

A reason the Minister can appoint Commissioners, is nothing to do with democracy but simple economics. WG pays Ynys Mon around two thirds of its budget. If locals want to survive on the other one third only with Village Idiots in charge, crack on.

Paul Williams said...

23.08 - all welsh councils receive the majority of their budgets from the WG, not just Ynys Môn. And, no, the WG cannot withdraw this funding because it doesn't like who local electors vote for.

kp said...

Sorry, but the Westminster government has the absolute right to put Mr Alex Salmond in his place as and when he steps out of line and so does the Welsh government have similar rights as and when a town council steps out of line.

Allow us to elect monkeys by all means, but please do not allow us to elect imbecilic, bent or wasteful monkeys.

Anonymous said...

Imbecilic, bent or wasteful monkeys
KP. Why do you talk such nauseating crap?

mairede thomas said...

Red Flag - removing the democratic process can never be the answer, whatever the problem. I'm amazed that anyone could even suggest it in this day and age and in a modern 'advanced' Country.

The Red Flag said...

Druid - 15 January 2012 22:49. Yes it does seem unfair to single out independents in this way, however half is better than none and it also relies on the parties to get a grip of their candidates and this would appear to be starting. There are cracks between IWJ and his Plaid councillors and sooner or lkater they will be told shut uip or stand as independent.

15 January 2012 22:55 WAG does not the right to send there unelected dictators to govern Ynys Mon. Wrong. It does actually. Not only that but it has a duty to intervene if things are not going the way they should. They probably held off to long in this instance - but then again they appear to have run with the old adage 'give them enough rope'. There are other councils that have received their warnings to buck-up or else Conwy for instance, now they know WG is not joking. Incidentally, the UK Parliament can do likewise with the Assembly and not only that, cxan dissolve PArliament in favour of being rulled by Cabinet in perpetuity if it so wishes.

Mairede 16 January 2012 00:46. You don't actually have an enshrined right to a council let alone a vote for one.

Mats said...

Dear Mr Druid

You make some fair points on this site. Are you standing to be one of the next councillors in the next round then so you can be heard properly, rather than 'just a blogger' with limited visibility to the people of Anglesey. Many are not aware of this site and only those who enjoy the politics read it...and that is a very minute portion of the Anglesey electorate. Maybe you have answered this before?

Prometheuswrites said...

Druid & Red Flag: Interesting debate regarding democracy, however I feel you may be being too parochial. Consider what has happened to 'democratic' governance in Greece and Italy (no elected heads of state there) and what is now happening in Hungary.

Should the economic sitution dictate then the same such will happen here (the UK) and Anglesey's current suspension of local democracry will be both 'de rigueur' & 'de jure' for the rest of the country.

However, 'swings and roundabouts' and all that ... more preferable that it's the pendulum that swings back and forth, rather than the axe ...

Anonymous said...

I was simple enough to believe that Plaid Cymru was the best Party for Wales, how wrong and stupid was I.

I was one of the naive and simple people who believed that Plaid Cymru would give the people of Anglesey a fair chance and help in their hour of need, God, how naive was I.

I was one of the dumb who wrote to Ieuan Wyn Jones asking him for help, he refused, I should had known that when he was elected the last thing he would do was help me, the simple honest man who voted for him.

I was the man who asked him to help me when my disabled parents were being bullied and harassed by an uncaring Council, again he refused to help me.

I was the man who believed in God and our right to live without intimidation and lies, how wring was I.

I thought that Plaid Cymru would help Welsh People, how wrong was I, and how wrong we all are if we think that Plaid Cymru are the party for Wales, nothing can be further from the truth.

Ieuan Wyn Jones, the biggest let down for the people of Anglesey.

Mats said...

I used to work for WG and IWJ and I left because I hated the whole set up. Then came CS...even worse. I think PC has had its day so PW will have to stand for election as a councillor to see if he has a stand amongst the electorate of Anglesey; only then can he stand as a potential AM or MP - his political party allegiance is irrelevant, he seems to sway in the right direction for Anglesey but he needs to use the local papers for more 'face' time with the non bloggers and nerds like us who has time on their hands to write these kind of posts...

Paul Williams said...

Mats - Yes, I do intend to stand for the county council.

Red Flag -

"Yes it does seem unfair to single out independents in this way, however half is better than none and it also relies on the parties to get a grip of their candidates and this would appear to be starting. There are cracks between IWJ and his Plaid councillors and sooner or lkater they will be told shut uip or stand as independent."

Then you accept that delaying the elections to introduce new boundaries is at best a very poor solution to the actual problems then? I have nothing against parties getting a better grip of their candidates, but these proposals will not effect this.

Promo - first of all good to see you back! secondly, i certainly hope that the rule by technocrats we are seeing in greece and italy (and Ynys Môn!) will not set a trend. Frankly I anyway doubt whether such unelected, non-mandated governments will last very long...

The Red Flag said...

Druid, to do nothing and carry on is the worst of all options.

All largely irrelevant now that the Minister has confirmed today that the elections will be delayed until 2013.